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	<title>Comments on: be firm</title>
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		<title>By: Haley</title>
		<link>http://therunestone.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/be-firm/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Haley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Sep 2008 20:35:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therunestone.wordpress.com/?p=26#comment-47</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Chino Blanco, for your comment, but I would like to point out a few things in response.

First of all, this is not about &quot;right&quot; to marry. This is about the definition of marriage. It scares me, this attempt to redefine an institution as old as mankind himself. I don&#039;t care if gay couples want their civil unions or some other name that gives them tax benefits and other rights (such as accompaniment of the loved one to the emergency room). But do NOT think for one instant that this is marriage, which is inherently between one man and one woman. The wording is false and biased and should be changed.

Secondly, it is true that the Doctine and Covenants says that. But you can&#039;t cherry-pick a statement like that and take it out of context. The whole quote is &quot;We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, WHEREBY ONE RELIGIOUS SOCIETY IS FOSTERED AND ANOTHER PROSCRIBED IN ITS SPIRITUAL PRIVILEGES, AND THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS OF ITS MEMBERS, AS CITIZENS, DENIED&quot; (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9, emphasis added). In context, the meaning of &quot;religious influence with civil government&quot; is that the government is controlled by an INSTITUTED religion and therefore finds it lawful to take away the rights of members of other religions, sometimes to the extreme of punishing them for simply not being a member of said instituted religion. Now, as history tells us, such punishment has happened to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, such as extermination orders in states like Missouri. Proposition 8 was proposed by more  than just Latter-day Saints, including other religious and nonreligious peoples. This is not an instituted religion trying to take away religious rights of others; this is the voice of the people trying to preserve the definition of the civil and religious contract of marriage. It is therefore well within our beliefs as Latter-day Saints AND as American citizens to participate in, campaign for, and vote in favor of Proposition 8.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Chino Blanco, for your comment, but I would like to point out a few things in response.</p>
<p>First of all, this is not about &#8220;right&#8221; to marry. This is about the definition of marriage. It scares me, this attempt to redefine an institution as old as mankind himself. I don&#8217;t care if gay couples want their civil unions or some other name that gives them tax benefits and other rights (such as accompaniment of the loved one to the emergency room). But do NOT think for one instant that this is marriage, which is inherently between one man and one woman. The wording is false and biased and should be changed.</p>
<p>Secondly, it is true that the Doctine and Covenants says that. But you can&#8217;t cherry-pick a statement like that and take it out of context. The whole quote is &#8220;We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government, WHEREBY ONE RELIGIOUS SOCIETY IS FOSTERED AND ANOTHER PROSCRIBED IN ITS SPIRITUAL PRIVILEGES, AND THE INDIVIDUAL RIGHTS OF ITS MEMBERS, AS CITIZENS, DENIED&#8221; (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9, emphasis added). In context, the meaning of &#8220;religious influence with civil government&#8221; is that the government is controlled by an INSTITUTED religion and therefore finds it lawful to take away the rights of members of other religions, sometimes to the extreme of punishing them for simply not being a member of said instituted religion. Now, as history tells us, such punishment has happened to members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, such as extermination orders in states like Missouri. Proposition 8 was proposed by more  than just Latter-day Saints, including other religious and nonreligious peoples. This is not an instituted religion trying to take away religious rights of others; this is the voice of the people trying to preserve the definition of the civil and religious contract of marriage. It is therefore well within our beliefs as Latter-day Saints AND as American citizens to participate in, campaign for, and vote in favor of Proposition 8.</p>
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		<title>By: Chino Blanco</title>
		<link>http://therunestone.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/be-firm/#comment-37</link>
		<dc:creator>Chino Blanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 05:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therunestone.wordpress.com/?p=26#comment-37</guid>
		<description>It pleases me to no end that the wording of Proposition 8 on the actual ballot has been brought into line with what this proposition intends:  it eliminates an existing right to marry.  

Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have been taught, “We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government …” (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It pleases me to no end that the wording of Proposition 8 on the actual ballot has been brought into line with what this proposition intends:  it eliminates an existing right to marry.  </p>
<p>Members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have been taught, “We do not believe it just to mingle religious influence with civil government …” (Doctrine and Covenants 134:9).</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Benedict</title>
		<link>http://therunestone.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/be-firm/#comment-27</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Benedict</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:40:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therunestone.wordpress.com/?p=26#comment-27</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed your post. I like it when folks do what the founding fathers did and simply say, &quot;We hold these truths to be self-evident,&quot; especially when those truths are the most basic and most self-evident truths.

The cause of homosexuality is idolatry according to Romans chapter 1. In Romans 1 the apostle Paul held homsexuality itself up as proof of the degradation of sin that everyone can admit. Everyone knows how nature is supposed to work. Everyone knows Who put all these things together to bless people. 

In the Old Testament God couldn&#039;t help people with these unnatural, passions of infamy. However, in the New Testament we have records in Corinthinas of God, in Christ, rescuing people from their sin. Anytime someone turns to the God and Father of Jesus Christ by believing that God has raised him from the dead, He will avail for them. They will never more be ashamed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed your post. I like it when folks do what the founding fathers did and simply say, &#8220;We hold these truths to be self-evident,&#8221; especially when those truths are the most basic and most self-evident truths.</p>
<p>The cause of homosexuality is idolatry according to Romans chapter 1. In Romans 1 the apostle Paul held homsexuality itself up as proof of the degradation of sin that everyone can admit. Everyone knows how nature is supposed to work. Everyone knows Who put all these things together to bless people. </p>
<p>In the Old Testament God couldn&#8217;t help people with these unnatural, passions of infamy. However, in the New Testament we have records in Corinthinas of God, in Christ, rescuing people from their sin. Anytime someone turns to the God and Father of Jesus Christ by believing that God has raised him from the dead, He will avail for them. They will never more be ashamed.</p>
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		<title>By: mormonsoprano</title>
		<link>http://therunestone.wordpress.com/2008/07/14/be-firm/#comment-25</link>
		<dc:creator>mormonsoprano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 01:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://therunestone.wordpress.com/?p=26#comment-25</guid>
		<description>A very good post. 

We have always reached out with love and kindness to each of God&#039;s children, no matter our differences, including those with gender identity disorder and same-sex attraction. 

However, we believe we are children of a Father in Heaven who is God of all. We believe in obeying His rules. God does not bend to every whim and tantrum. He doesn&#039;t sit around wringing His hands trying to &#039;compromise&#039;, or be popular, or try not to offend (if He did, He would immediately cease to be God and become just another politician). He does not waver, because He cannot. He is wiser. He knows the big picture. It may hurt my child&#039;s feelings right now if I do not let him play with the exciting matches, and I do not allow him to dart back and forth across a busy street. Too bad. Good parents knows the dangers that a child cannot yet comprehend. The rules of a parent are in place to protect their children, and they cannot be bent or broken without consequences. Our Father in Heaven also has made rules to protect each of His children. One of His very most important rules is His definition of the sacred institution of marriage. It began in the Garden of Eden.

The entire history of our world has proven that when the majority of a society chooses to reject God&#039;s laws, and make up their own rules, all must suffer the consequences. When we choose to protect the sacred definition of marriage, we are not only choosing what is right, we are choosing to protect our  Nation. Basically, we must try to do what God does with all of us every day - &#039;save them from themselves&#039;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very good post. </p>
<p>We have always reached out with love and kindness to each of God&#8217;s children, no matter our differences, including those with gender identity disorder and same-sex attraction. </p>
<p>However, we believe we are children of a Father in Heaven who is God of all. We believe in obeying His rules. God does not bend to every whim and tantrum. He doesn&#8217;t sit around wringing His hands trying to &#8216;compromise&#8217;, or be popular, or try not to offend (if He did, He would immediately cease to be God and become just another politician). He does not waver, because He cannot. He is wiser. He knows the big picture. It may hurt my child&#8217;s feelings right now if I do not let him play with the exciting matches, and I do not allow him to dart back and forth across a busy street. Too bad. Good parents knows the dangers that a child cannot yet comprehend. The rules of a parent are in place to protect their children, and they cannot be bent or broken without consequences. Our Father in Heaven also has made rules to protect each of His children. One of His very most important rules is His definition of the sacred institution of marriage. It began in the Garden of Eden.</p>
<p>The entire history of our world has proven that when the majority of a society chooses to reject God&#8217;s laws, and make up their own rules, all must suffer the consequences. When we choose to protect the sacred definition of marriage, we are not only choosing what is right, we are choosing to protect our  Nation. Basically, we must try to do what God does with all of us every day &#8211; &#8217;save them from themselves&#8217;!</p>
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